A win for Trump was a win for bigotry. Here’s how we resist him | Owen Jones | Opinion | The Guardian

This surge of the far right and fascism across Europe and America is extremely worrying. Trump is putting some extreme people into his cabinet! We’ve never seen such a right wing group before. This is becoming scary.

61chrissterry

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38 thoughts on “A win for Trump was a win for bigotry. Here’s how we resist him | Owen Jones | Opinion | The Guardian

  1. You’re talking nonsense. You have seen extreme right-wing before, in fact, way more right-wing than that you think these people are. See Johnson, Nixon and Bush Snr.

      • You were old enough to understand Vietnam and the mentality of those who made it happen.
        Lyndon B. Johnson was a savage.
        Richard Nixon and his people?
        Gerald Ford & Bush Snr. with Donald Rumsfeld?

      • Yeah I know – but I don’t remember ever being as worried as with Donald and this huge swing to the right across America and Europe. It is a reaction to globalisation and mass immigration, which has some validation, but the right has been quick to mobilise. Trump looks to be selecting some real nutters.

      • I would disagree that the right has been quick. It has taken years and years to begin to tackle this.

        I think you’re use of exaggeration and hyperbole is unwarranted by the fact that several people as named so far were never politicians before, so what therefore, do you know about them?
        I think you need to find out a little bit more about them first, why they have been selected and what their skill sets are.

    • You cannot surely have any problem with one of Trump’s first choices, Rudy Giuliani?
      He fought the government and defended undocumented immigrants.

      • Aaah – some light in the darkness. But surely you must also be concerned with some of the policies and appointments? You surely don’t think that ditching the Green stuff is good? Or giving huge tax cuts to the rich will solve the problems of the displaced working class? Or pulling out of NATO is a good thing? Or do you think all of that is great news?

  2. You know, I think everyone I know (even here in Utah, believe it or not) feel exactly that way. To lay down and accept this would be the death of this republic. Yet I wonder if opponents can maintain the momentum. Even states that were nearly totally Red like Utah are beginning to see how this is going to play out. Trump said in the last couple days he was going to pull the plug on some important funding Utah is getting from the government. We have a lot of unhappy people here now. When they whine I just want to say to them, “Well, babes, you elected him!!!”

    • If he pulls out of the Paris agreement and follows some of his policies on abortion, isolationism and tax cuts it will hit benefits, schools and health. We’ll see.

  3. These comments are so ridiculous. Violent protests are the answer, really? Obama says nothing about the protestors does not say to stop, what an evil individual he is. The people chose after 8 years of that man the voices were heard, the other side dont like the answers. Here in England as you know people voted to get out of the EU the other lot don’t like it. If anything those, all of those that don’t accept a fair decision its you lot who are f…..g the whole lot up. Get a grip. Racism raises its ugly head, not whites against blacks but black and a majority of whites against ordinary whites who want a change which you lot find unacceptable both sides of the pond.

    • I don’t mind change – it’s the type of change. Hitler was fairly elected too. When something is wrong it is wrong – you oppose it. But I don’t think anyone is condoning violence.

      • Are you seriously suggesting Hitler was fairly elected?
        Therefore, there was no manipulation, corruption, bullying, murders of opposition etc?

        Where did you get this idea from?

      • As fair as any democratic election where everything is manipulated. Admittedly there was a degree of violence but no more than was being done to the black vote in certain parts of the States.

      • I’m afraid you’re dead wrong there. 95% voted for Hitler. Why?
        What were the repercussions if they didn’t?
        I suggest further reading with this topic.

        You say no more than the black vote?
        They couldn’t have cared less whether blacks voted or not.
        At what point in history do you refer to here?

      • The black vote has been prevented right up until the present day. Didn’t you read the reports on black registration in some States?
        Are you really suggesting that Hitler did not have sufficient public support during the early days? I’m not talking about the tactics once he’d got in. Even then he was seen as a saviour by many. He sorted out a lot of things. The tip of the ice-berg looked good. It was what was under the water.

      • Are you blind and deaf to what is going on, when have you heard that Obama once tell the rioters to stop, have you heard him say not to attack the Police. Have you heard that H Clinton say one word, no of course not. Yet if it had been the other way round my god we would never have heard the end of it. There was an election, too bad it didn’t go the way you wanted here and America. People don’t win so that means they can riot and protest? A load of losers and bullies that’s all they and their supporters are.

        Do you and others have any idea how ridiculous you sound in comparing Hitler to President Elect Trump. Thank god people came to their senses here and America and made the right choices, much to your annoyance.

      • I don’t think they care less about the black vote.

        I’ll leave the Hitler stuff for another time – it’s too complex and you’ve obviously not got a clue. I’d have to start at the beginning and it would take me 6 months.

      • What? You think I don’t have a handle on the rise of fascism? You are the font of all knowledge? It’s so complex isn’t it? And you seriously don’t see any similarities with this lurch to the right?

      • Anna I’m moving house at the moment. It is quite traumatic and time consuming lugging, sorting and doing. I have not heard anything Obama and Clinton have said and I’m sure they are not condoning violence. Obama seems to have come out with a lot of good, sensible words. And Trump has changed his tune a bit.
        When it comes to being blinkered I think you need to take a look at yourself. You really think dumping all the Green policies is good? You’ll be the first to complain when all the wildlife is slaughtered in the name of profit. You think that giving huge tax cuts to the rich is great? That’s money that is needed for schools and support for those needy desperate people. You really think that building a wall 2000 miles long is a good idea? You think that leaving NATO and giving the go-ahead to Putin is a good idea? That Georgia and the Ukraine and Crimea are not important? The last World War started in Serbia.
        People are concerned. They don’t like seeing this rise of fascism across Europe with extreme parties looking to get elected in France, Holland, Germany and Greece. People are fighting for the environment and against racism and xenophobia.
        When it comes to blinkered I think you need to look in the mirror. This isn’t a game. These are people’s lives.
        Your unlimited support of Trump and Brexit is a support for a bunch of extreme people. You are denying all the negative impacts. They are looking to do some horrible things. When they start strip mining Alaska and wiping out the animals you’ll be cheering will you?

  4. You’ve only got what appears to be a bottom rung entry level handle ref Nazi Germany.
    As you so far couldn’t even tell me why 95% voted for him and what the repercussions would be had they not done so. That’s self explanatory.
    I would say my knowledge on the subject is considerably greater due to the fact that I’ve studied the subject for many years, some 200 books, reams of copies of Nazi archive documents first published in 1966, even stuff like original Nazi issue City year books and ephemeral stuff right down to pages of non-franked 1st edition stamps – that I know the reasons for their issue in the first place. Plus a rather large film archive, at least 100 documentaries.

    So, yeah, it is a big subject for me that I’ve spent thousands of hours on. Hence, why I suggest you should do further reading. Hence, why I suggested it is indeed slightly more complex than you presently consider it to be.
    You may recall that I have previously offered information alternative to statements made by yourself on this subject and were you to check them out you would find that I knew what I was talking about. But, never mind, go your own way and try to avoid rewriting history.

    In terms of Nazi Germany ref USA today, no I do not see any similarities.
    I do see some left-wing nutters willfully destroying property. That is a similarity, but probably one that’s too uncomfortable for many to fully realise at this juncture.
    I agree that all immigrant criminals guilty of serious crimes and have expressed zero desire to be socially aware citizens posing no danger to others should be sent back to their place of origin. They have no alternative but to remove them completely in order to tackle the root source problems.

    • My Andrew – the way you say it. You know all that and you still fail to see all the obvious similarities. That boggles me. Perhaps you only get the facts and not the feel of the beast?
      I agree that all immigrants causing criminal damage should be deprted (after a fair trial). But the root cause of the problem is not immigrants, race or creed – it is poverty, inequality and lack of opportunity. Racism and the establishment load the dice.

      • Please realise there exist zero political thug divisions in the name of Trump organised to reek havoc in society in general. There are no target pockets of people’s being eliminated. There are no gangs of thugs organised to destroy property. There are no people being thrown out of their homes or losing their jobs on the strength of their religion. This was happening in Germany circa 1932-33.
        Hence, why so many left Germany in 1933, at least those with either the wits or the money to do so.
        Until such time, therefore, there are no similarities.
        It’s very easy in hindsight to perceive any contradiction of semblance of social order, but not at the time. People make the worst decisions possible when they are afraid.
        The situation today holds no secrets unlike early 30s Germany, where only a few knew the plan – today information is equal right across the board.
        Give me one single example today where Trump has had any involvement in such a masterplan or any evidence to suggest that such a situation has occurred under his remit.
        Basically, you are a blether.

        Cleaning up shit isn’t exactly right-wing.
        California’s jails, already jammed to the rafters are 73% occupied by Latinos. If you want to see racism start with these individuals that live and breathe Latino gang culture. They wear the signature markings tattoo’d top to bottom all over themselves. They would kill you as soon as look at you.
        They’ve already been tried. He should empty these prisons and load and dispatch south.
        We here in UK have nothing of the nature of this and the whole thing is alien to us. We wouldn’t be able to tolerate it.

      • Well it is certainly true that Trump does not run an organisation on the lines of the German National Socialist Party. But these are different times. He doesn’t need to. He has twitter. He doesn’t need propaganda or Goebbels. He does it himself. He has run a campaign based on hate, xenophobia and fear. He has targeted the vulnerable and fed them the lines. In my opinion the fearful and those without hope have been fed false hope.
        Times have changed. Fascism works differently. But it is still based on the same premise – identify a group, blame them and target them. Tell everyone it’ll all be great when we’ve removed the menace.
        Cleaning up shit is very right-wing. Solving the problems that lead to people having shit outcomes is left-wing. People aren’t ever shit. There are reasons for the way they behave. What is learnt can be unlearnt. All people have worth.
        Time and time again we see the right-wing setting about solving the ‘problem’ by executing or locking people up. It’s about time they realised that it doesn’t work. You have to find why they do what they do and put things right.
        But then I’m a namby pamby liberal and you live in the real world.

      • I suppose that’s a retraction of spurious claims of sorts.
        That’s as far as you could go.
        I don’t think you’re giving very much consideration as to the systems of order within the prisons. They run their own prisons within a prison with a completely different set of rules and you’re talking about what has been learned can be unlearned? What planet are you on?
        What on earth makes you think that they have any kind of regard for the type of society that you might be comfortable with? What gives you the right to even suggest that they need educating? They couldn’t give a shit for your world or the way it operates. They live each man for himself, the stronger the better, the stronger the longer lived. They needn’t be using a pen and pencil and reading to master this. This is prime example of 4th world meets 1st world – it never ever works.
        They live by clan mentality where the more outsiders from that clan a man has killed the higher up his clan he moves.
        Each man’s personal history is tattoo’d all over his body so each other gang member fully understands his position within the gang. If he’s killed 29 and the other guy only 19, then he answers to the guy with 29. This is what gets respect in their community. It is all that matters to them, nothing else.
        And you’re talking about education?

        Not too sure about your theory on left-wing shit cleaning being better than right-wing shit cleaning. We seem to still be very busy cleaning up left-wing shit in the UK many years after it was dropped on us.

        You’re right, I do live in the real world. 50 yards from my place I can go and place orders with the shop lifters. One phone call and the dealer comes to me. I’m surrounded by criminality. £500 could get me someone done with a baseball bat. £1k for a knee-cap job with a shot-gun. £5k buried in the Clyde with concrete socks. That’s the real world. Poetry is optional.

      • It’s the same round here in certain areas. I lived in those areas most of my life. I moved out to somewhere nicer and put my energies into trying to make things better through education.
        I don’t make the distinction between good people and bad – all a question of upbringing, opportunity and indoctrination. I know them well. I have lived in those communities.
        Perhaps you should move – then you wouldn’t have such a jaundiced view of the world. There are many more ‘nice’ people than there are brainless psychopaths with tattoos. The gang members I knew were not like you describe. They wore their uniform and lived the life (short and violent) but they were people too.

      • You completely don’t get it do you?
        For a start you haven’t lived in a major city since you moved to Hull in 1974 – 42 years ago!
        A lot has happened in 42 years.
        Because I live where I live gives me the ability to tell the likes of nowheresville you, where it’s at with certain things in life today now, 2016, not 1974!

        Why would me moving from a central area get me a less jaundiced view? FFS, I’d end up like you, some old completely out of touch geezer without a feckin’ clue!
        You do not understand clan/gang mentality at all.
        You have to prove to them, not the other way around.
        And if you ever display a superiour “oh poor guy, it’s not’s his fault, he doesn’t know any better” attitude, they will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
        You’d last 20 seconds at most where I live. You’d just have to open your mouth and they would glass you first and then ask you where you were from.
        You know not of what you talk.
        You hail from a completely different set of social mores.

        You are confusing your American experience of 1980 of junior gang culture of what you say you saw shown to you by some school children versus real gang culture in Los Angeles prisons of 2016.
        I think you will find a marked difference. A whole world of.
        When will you understand this.
        Stop being such a fucking arse and wake up to the reality that you actually saw sfa of anything of the nature of the people that I am talking about.

        Watch the docs on youtube or shut up.
        The Mary Whitehouse Experience cannot help you here.

      • So Andrew – what exactly is all this ranting about? Why all the aggression? Why all this talk about how great you are and how much more you know about everything? What’s that all about? It’s all a bit OTT isn’t it? You’re setting yourself up as the font of all knowledge with the only view that counts. What’s the psychology of that?

      • Because every single time I counter any point made by you with an alternative, you accuse me of engaging in the reliance of ‘facts’ – what else is there, hot air?
        What is ‘feeling the beast’ when he’s at home.
        That’s way too poetic a nonentity of statement for me.
        I don’t do new-age crystal ball gazing and can’t be doing with hippy anything. I hate hippy stuff, it’s too vacuous and flaky.
        You seem to judge everything on beliefs – I cannot ever do that. Hence, why I remain completely reliant on proof positive facts. Nothing else will suffice as far as I am concerned.
        Or you accuse me of being some kind of self-proclaimed expert – meaning I really don’t know what I’m talking about as nothing, no information contrary to that which known to yourself could possibly be taken on board by you.
        By this method, therefore, if you understood something be as you understood it the first time, you will never be able to re-assess that upon the second time around.
        You’re like a dog going around in circles chasing it’s own tail.

        There you have it – fully explained to you in black in white.
        Shame you couldn’t figure it out for yourself.

      • The way I see it Andrew – there are no facts. There are views. There is evidence. There is a working hypothesis. But nothing is black and white. I am sceptical.
        I prefer to discuss things, investigate, argue. Yours isn’t an argument; it’s a pronouncement. There is no doubt in your mind that you may be wrong (and often are). You think that once you have told someone that they should accept your superior knowledge. Sorry – I don’t.
        Neither do I subscribe to any esoteric, new-age hippy stuff. I like the old hippy stuff of fellowship, sharing and sorting out a way of living with better values.
        Don’t try to pigeon-hole me.
        A discussion or views would be interesting – assertions made with personal abuse is sad.

  5. If that’s the case, why does it seem that you repeatedly take the first morsel of info from the news and and blog it with paranoia and hysteria thrown in for good measure. You’re one step removed from the nutters at Speaker’s Corner with ‘The End Is Nigh’ placards.
    There’s zero ‘investigation’ done on your part otherwise you wouldn’t have needed to admit to being manipulated by the BBC, as per your own words, ‘yes, I am gullible’, whilst asking where you can find alternative information sources. Remember? Probably not…

    I’m never wrong – I have to correct you all too frequently, don’t I?
    I ask questions all the time – you can’t/don’t answer, which pretty much amounts to your blog being a ‘pronouncement’, doesn’t it?

    If there are no facts, why are you so hung-up on global warming issues or the demise of wildlife?
    Prove it without facts. You might struggle.

    You’re really not engaging in rational thought with regards ‘black and white’. I was referring to what you see on this page, in black and white, but you want to expand that with a load of hippy bull.
    However, contrary to your claims – there are millions of factors that are absolutely black and white, where there exists absolute fact, where any stages of hypothesis are long overtaken with concrete equations. The speed of sound for example.

    If you were quite as sceptical as you pretend to be, why therefore, are you so hung-up on global warming and the demise of wildlife?
    The very last thing you could ever tag yourself with being would be ‘sceptical’.
    Don’t make me laugh.

    • Sometimes you talk rubbish. I blog what I think is pertinent and interesting to me. The fact that it does not sit easy with your view on people such as Trump is just how it is. You are free to put your view in to counter what I put out or to discuss it.
      No you are not always right. While I agree with many of the things you say and appreciate the depth you go to you are not always right. There are many things that I think you are very wrong on regarding Trump and Brexit, Hull, Me ……
      In terms of facts I think that even things such as the speed of light and sound will be brought into question by quantum physics. It is so weird that I don’t pretend to understand it. When particles can arrive before they leave, photons alter behaviour when observed and electrons can exist in two places at once it brings the whole question of our reality into doubt. ‘Facts’ are useful, and I use them, but I do not hold them sacrosanct.
      As for climate change – there is a wealth of evidence but there is still debate. For me there is ample to evidence to have grave concern. Is it a fact? No.
      As for wildlife destruction there is a wealth of evidence backed up by my own observations. I care about animals and I do not have too high an opinion of people. There’s far too many of us. I see first-hand the cruelty and butchery, the habitat destruction.
      I think we dispute too much the nature of ‘facts’.

      • Talking rubbish was comparing Trump to Hitler. That was a topper. Just silly nonsense.
        I like Trump’s business acumen – there ends. You will see him get US back on it’s feet – and you know it.
        I’m dead right about Brexit. I hated the EU and everything to do with the people that run it. That’s what I don’t get with yourself, these people should be your nemesis, but for some reason you want to cow down to them.
        Their days are numbered as by this time next year both France and Germany will stick 2 fingers up at them.
        You want the NHS performing better? Well get rid of these damnable EU quangos that keep interfering with it.
        Have you noticed your petrol price today?

        Hull? what about it, have we ever discussed it? except regards WW2?

        Yes, climate change is a huge debate of uncertainties.
        Sometimes what gets reported isn’t always what it should be.
        I’ll give you an example: The Maldives Islands.
        They’re in the Indian Ocean – as you know – but what they never report is that they are not islands made of rock, but formed from sand bars. Several hundreds of miles away are underwater active volcanos that explode all the time. This causes a continuous rumble of small undetectable tremors which although you are unaware of them, cracks will suddenly appear on plaster walls etc. Basically these tremors are shaking the sand sediment base of the islands, fracturing it and causing crumbling and a slow sinking back into the sea. It looks like the sea is rising but the islands are sinking.
        There’s one example of where bad information is being promoted as a fact regards global warming.

      • OK so you don’t see the similarities. I and many others do.
        We’ll see what Trump does. It might not be to any of our liking.
        I want beyond the EU. I want some global government that sets laws on human rights, pollution, environment, taxes, big business and crime and has the means to enforce them. I can see the negative side and the dangers but for me the broader picture is what is important. There are a lot of things I don’t like about the EU but a lot of things I do. The things I don’t like – such as the undemocratic process and mass immigration – are easy to put right.
        I haven’t noticed petrol prices today. I know they have been up quite a bit since Brexit. Have they gone down?
        There is a huge body of evidence for climate change. Some may be inaccurate but there is more than enough to convince me. Worse that that is the growth in human population and destruction of the natural world. We are wiping out the rest of life on this planet. It is a shameful catastrophe.

      • So when you get your global government and all things are equal and you find yourself woken at 4am every morning with 125 decibels of noise coming from your local mosque, then another 4 times throughout each day, you’ll be quietly satisfied?
        But hey, you could always write to your local MP, who in turn could report to the sub-committee, who do local stuff, who’ll take it to area, then regional, then national, then area-continental, then sub-continental, then…
        Yeah, that’ll work.

      • Of course not Andrew. There will not be any mosques, temples, churches or cathedrals (at least not operating) because religion will be banned.
        I will form a cabinet to ensure there is fairness and justice dispensed immediately and that there is never any tyranny or despots.
        Don’t worry – I’ll have it sorted.

  6. I would worry. Global anything would be a chimpanzee’s tea party. A diabolical disaster from beginning to end. Globalist’s suffer from complete myopia.

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